Church hoppers

[Pastor Rob Early]

I have a question for the other pastors (and actually for anyone who reads this forum). I am curious to know what is your approach and that of others to people who leave other churches to join yours or a different church. I am not speaking of people who leave an unbiblical church because they realize they need to be in a better place; this note is about those who move from one imperfect Baptist church to another imperfect one. I also am not speaking about leaving an abusive church even if it is Baptist in name. No one should stay in a wrong church no matter what the name.

In our area there are many Baptist churches, surprisingly so for a region not traditionally known as being part of the Bible belt. What happens with some regularity is that a family will become upset about something at their church and leave to join another one, all without trying to make matters right at their first church. They usually announce their intentions by sending a letter or e-mail to the pastor at the first church claiming that they have prayed about their decision, they have peace about it, and they do not want to discuss the matter any further. To back up their words, they refuse to take phone calls or answer e-mails from their first pastor. (This is not a hypothetical scenario because I have seen it a few times.)

In the majority of such cases, the pastor of the second church never contacts the first pastor to find out the complete story. It is not that the first pastor must grant permission for the family to leave, of course, because no one can be forced to stay in a church. However, it is proper to address a problem Biblically rather than running away from it, but too many people don’t wish to do so. In this case, what kind of story is being told to the second church? It would be good for that pastor to find out everything, even if he only confirms that the first pastor is acting improperly. In that case, he can congratulate his new members on getting themselves out of a bad situation. On the other hand, he might learn that the problem lies with the members who have gone running from one place to another. They may still wish to join his church but could at least make matters right at the first one.

When this has happened to my church, I have not tried to contact the second church pastor if I happen to know where someone has moved on to (which only happens by accident). Such action might be too close to stalking. My thought is that if the second pastor does not want to find out the complete story, he deserves any future problems that arise.

For reference, Jay Adams' Handbook of Church Discipline has an excellent discussion of this problem in chapter 10, "Cross-Congregational Discipline."

Please forgive the length of this post. I am curious to see what you all have run into and have handled such situations from any side (first pastor, second pastor, family on the move).

[MavMin]

That's a tough one. Statistics show that pastors only last three years at a church, youth pastors about 18 months and members move every 2.1 years.

Best way to solve the problem is to have fewer churches. When a church loses a pastor they should evaluate whether they should merge with another church. Better to have one church in town or nearby area that can do well than four that are struggling. Many churches were the only place within 20 miles back when 20 miles was a long way to travel and have actually out lived their usefulness. Others split 40 years ago and no one now even knows why. I once drove 2 miles past a church that appeared to be thriving to candidate at a church falling apart and dying but they had no desire to merge though all of the members drove in from other communites. They were living in the past. We are terrible stewards of God's money and manpower.

However, being that Baptists are better at splitting and we keep cranking out more preachers than we need who need churches to pastor we must realize the above statistics and work within that context.

Young people have basically said no to church as we know it. Older folks either stay in a dead church just because they were married in that church or just because they refuse to change. Others get burned and bring baggage with them being determined to never get burned again thus they are over sensitive and leave at the slightest "offense" and will do so for the rest of their lives unless God heals them or they just quit church completely.

We once did transfers by letter but that have fallen into disuse and I am not so sure that pastors were real honest about those anyway. Too many times we bring in a member too quickly because we are desperate for members. We should investigate more and if we know the church then call that pastor though for fear of a lawsuit he may say nothing. We do background checks on staff and even landlords do credit checks why shouldn't we check on folks we allow to join our church? Anyone can attend but we may need to go back to the days when no one could join for a year and way back it was three years.

I am all for a new membership class as well. I put together a seven week class for our church. That way they know exactly who we are and why they want to join other than for several weeks or two in a roll the message was good, the music better and people seemed friendly or because we gave them a free meal.

Interestingly enough I just had a similar sitauation with a missionary. I heard that another church was considering one that we had supported but then he was dropped by his board and there were problems at our church since he was a member. Did I just hope he got his act together or let the pastor know of the issues? I chose to tell him but I said that I hope he got his problems straightened out and God was using him again. The pastor appreciated me telling him and he knew about the issues so it went well.

Anyway, we are in the state that we are in and people will continue to move out of boredom more than over doctinal error or pastoral abuse. You can tell them to go back and work out their problem with the other pastor or take them in for whatever time they will give you and pray that God will preserve the church or heal them.

[The Parson]

Yep, been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, gave it away, and bought it back at a yard sale.

There was a couple that came who said they had a problem with the folks at their previous church. Duh, should of talked to my brother pastor! Those folks turned our church upside down. If I had of insisted on them making things right at the other church before they joined, one of two things would of happened.

1. They would seen the error of their ways and not caused such a problem every where they went.

2. They would of left us too, because they refused to make things right.

The Apostle Paul told us to mark these folks: Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

But to be honest, the fault was mainly mine as the pastor because I didn't check things out.

[Michelle]

We recently left a church and joined another. Our reasons were multiple. First our new church has a heart for our town - the church we were attending is a half hour away and not only in another town, but another county. Secondly, our old church was moving more towards the New Evangelicals than anything. They have started partnering with a group that touts itself as Reformed Charismatic.

[Pastor Rob Early]

My thanks go to all who responded to my original posting. You have brought up some very valid points. I agree that there are many occasions when leaving a church is the only proper action, particularly when the church has strayed from the faith or you have come to learn that the leadership is not Biblical. When you find that your shepherd is in fact a wolf, the prudent action is to leave. There are other valid reasons, of course, such as finding a church closer to your home and by extension your local mission field.

What I was wondering about are the folks who become upset over some issue, which may seem trivial to others but is definitely a big deal to them. Upon getting upset, they leave and won't discuss the matter with the pastor or anyone. What makes them refuse to talk to anyone and freeze out people with whom they were friends? What happened to going to another Christian and explaining their problems while trying for Biblical solutions? And what keeps pastors who find such potential new members from trying to learn all sides of the story? Even though the folks may end up at another church (and that is their right), it is hardly a sterling example of Christianity to freeze out others.

There are no easy answers, I imagine, and I do thank all for their comments.

[MavMin]

Rob, they freeze you out because they don't want you to try and talk them out of it when they have made up their mind and more than likely they know they are wrong. This one thing may just be the excuse they have been looking for anyway but they don't want their excuse exposed or removed by logic and Scripture. They have no desire to Matt 18 anything.

[Pastor Rob Early]

Ron, of course you are right that many people do not want to use the Biblical approach of Matthew 18. It's easier to claim "spiritual abuse" and use it or some other excuse to do what they wish to. (Having made that statement, I know that I must keep a careful watch on my heart for my motives as well.) I guess my question was rhetorical in nature; as many others do, I keep hoping that Christians will behave as the Bible says. (And to be fair, sometimes we are pleasantly surprised when they actually obey the Bible.) Thanks again.